E-Mail This Article to a Friend Diplo: believe the type

This week in the newspaper and here online, Chris Nelson writes about Wes Pentz, a/k/a Diplo, of the world-renowned Philadelphia DJ duo Hollertronix, and his intention to step down from DJ-ing to concentrate on production. Nelson’s interview with Diplo evolved from a late-night instant-message chat, from which edited excerpts appear below.

I. In which a casual conversation about mixtape jawns leads to revelations of potential career suicide.

Chris Nelson | So this Mr. Vegas track over the M.I.A. beat that you sent me: this is for the Piracy Funds Terrorism 2 mixtape?

Wes Pentz | Yeah, that one is. Wait ’til you hear the other shit I’m puttin’ down for the mixtape. The dubs I’m workin’ on are kinda nuts.

Fuck that shit, man. Make another Florida.

Yeah, [Piracy 2] is gonna be a farewell to DJ’ing, ’cause I started a lot of this shit kids are doin’, so I’m tryin’ to crank it out on some "Y’all can’t fuck with this, but keep makin’ mashups anyway" kinda mixtape to end it. And then I’m prepping for the next Diplo album, like Florida with mad club music and epic shit.

Awesome.

I need a break to do all that, though. September is my mixtape month, grindin’. And then get the album done by, like, April or something, put it out next September. That’s my plan.

Did people like Florida in general? I felt like, at least around here, people either weren't feelin’ it or didn’t get it.

No, people don’t like Florida. I think people do, if they get into it. It was a long time in the making, since I was like 17, so about five tracks [on there] I really feel like I want to take with me to the grave. But the next one will be better. It’s the first time I’ll have complete control and my only job will be to make music.

That sounds sick. Congrats.

Yeah. Plus I’m about to pull a Terrell Owens on Big Dada. I just need a break to clear my head and start over. This whole shit with M.I.A. and then even with my shit being all exposed eight months after the record came out is kinda heavy. I gotta come out hard now.

I was reading something in the paper here in Boston, some guy saying he went up to you at a gig and gave you $20 ’cause he downloaded your music.

Haha, yeah. I told him I don’t care if fools download my shit. I’ve become a DJ by nature, and that’s how I make my money. I’ve already covered all the money Big Dada gave me times 100, through my own hustle, after they gave me a bit of a stage, with no contract involved. It’s all just off mixtapes and personal beats.

That’s pretty weird nowadays.

Yeah, I’m thinking about how it’s kinda weird that I’m in such a middle ground. Kano to down south to M.I.A. to Beck [Diplo remixed Beck’s "Go It Alone"] to my own weird shit. I really can’t be placed, man, and I’m really lucky. And it’s by accident, just ’cause I don’t give a fuck. But I need to get grounded, ’cause I did all this by answerin’ phone calls and being at clubs. But if I’d had a plan, it’d be over.

Yeah, it seems like shit is really soaring right now. I was gonna ask you if you ever wonder what’s next, but it seems like you've got a game plan now.

Nah. I’m going to Brazil to try and make a film on this noise, but I don’t think like it’s the right idea now. It’s a huge commitment and I don’t trust anyone to help me.

You used to do video shit exclusively, right? Film stuff?

Yeah, that’s why I even make music, ’cause of film, working with soundless film. Then it got bent into me DJing ’cause I loved it, which bent into me just DJing ’cause I made more money than working a full-time job.

When was the last time you had a real full-time job?

One and a half years ago, as a social worker in North Philly, De Borges Elementary. I was 24-25, and I was the only white dude at this social work program called, no joke, W.E.S. Services. It was all unemployed rappers and would-be wives of rappers.

So you're 26 now?

Yeah, I’ma be 27 before the year winds down. I hope to retire next year.

What?

Just kiddin’.

You keep rockin’ hoop jerseys and you stay young forever.

I just figured that out, though. I’m always checkin’ for the size L b-ball jerseys at high fashion boutiques.

Yeah, keep on that. Don’t get a personal stylist.

Nah, I was makin’ my own ‘De La Soul Is Dead’ t-shirts when I was in high school in Florida, with those iron-on letters. I only rock free clothes now, but I still gotta cop the jeans. Can’t have the high style fitted ones. They’re kinda corny.

Levi’s ain’t givin’ shit out for free.

Yeah, they gay. But jeans are expensive if they good, man. Two years ago, I had to shoplift from the Gap and Urban Outfitters. Now I got some game, so I buy them like $180 jeans. That’s what I spend my money on since I got Serrato.

Damn, man. I’m gonna broke soon, you'll have to teach me how.

It’s easier as you get older, except you can go to jail now. But they don’t think a 20-something white bol is stealin’. You just gotta take a razor blade to cut off the ink blotter joint and don’t mind the hole in the belt buckle area. Or double the jeans up at the Gap, like the two pair style.

This is gonna come in handy, for real.

Yeah, dude. I stole many pairs of jeans. It’s crazy. Now I’m about to have a flea market to cover my legal fees when I get dropped from my label.

II. In which the most exciting places of the world are named.

Wes Pentz | Right now, to me, the most exciting places is like: Brazil, Shanghai, street LA and the major African cities with money and the soca scene. Also, eastern Europe in a minute. And Israel, since trance is dead and they bookin’ me now.

Chris Nelson | Oh, right – did you do Tel Aviv yet?

Next weekend.

What about Philly? How's the hometown doing?

I think Philly is gonna have something special. I’m buyin’ a house here to count on it. There’s enough fucked up lil’ kids here, and Sean Agnew.

I didn’t really even consider Philly in my moving plans. Maybe that’s where I should be.

Philly may be too small for you. And the NJ Turnpike is kinda wack. But NYC and Philly are really close, and it’s worth it to try NYC. But I just can’t stay there for more than like 3 days before it makes me crazy.

III. In which salutations are bestowed on a little-recalled Bay Area meeting between a man who cannot be touched, a godfather of gangsta rap, the king of hyphy, and crickets.

Chris Nelson | Woah, MC Hammer did a single with Too Short and Keak da Sneak?

Wed Pentz | Yeah, it’s hot. Hammer’s a Bay Area legend dude, for real. He probably could buy all those "Hyphy" dudes out from just the "Pray" single.

I’m not feelin’ too much of the Bay shit. This song has cricket sounds, though – I fuck with cricket sounds.

Yeah, you know I do. That’s all I hear in Florida. I’m really disconnected with all of it right now, though. That’s why I’m glad I made that record, ’cause the more I go places, I gotta recognize that I did that out of pure personal reasons. I really felt that shit, and then only later did I learn about the game. But that record is the sound of where I grew up, what went down in my mind, what I heard with the first girl I fell in love with. There’s really something that’s just magical about all of it. Or at least I felt that. And then people try and tell me it’s not.

Nah, man. You feel that shit on the record.

It’s cool. It’s all trends. Maybe I’m lucky that if I keep my head in all of this shit, then at least when it’s all done, motherfuckers can check that shit and see that I was really feeling somethin’. Maybe it’s like some Van Morrison, Astral Weeks shit. After I become a complete drunk, at least I made that.

Just don’t start playin’ casinos. My mom still goes to see Van Morrison. It’s sad.

Yo, that’s the article you gotta write about me. Call it ‘After I Become A Drunk.’

IV. What to do with breakup songs after Fiona Apple’s album has shipped.

Chris Nelson | The thing I always find weird about your audience is that you have the Pitchfork dudes now, obviously. And you got some international shine from M.I.A. and Florida. But that core of Philly dudes, like the same dudes who you started off with, are still right there.

Wes Pentz | Barely. Like, going to Scribble [Jam] with Cosmo and Ayres felt real good, ’cause there’s a lot of hate out there and a lot of tension between all these Philly people. But I do feel like if I don’t got them, I’m a bit wack. Dirty South Joe and Brendan [Bring ’Em] are big in the streets.

What’s this track you sent me? I only got about 30 seconds of it.

What track?

"Girlfriend Broke Up With Me."

Just some beat that I had on my desktop. Me trying to play all the instruments. I’ma give this one to Fiona Apple.

Dude, you had like five years! Now her album’s wrapped.

Oops. I meant Nelly Furtado.

You fuckin’ sellout, man.

I meant Paris Hilton.

Goddamnit.

Lars Ulrich?

That’s kind of the cool shit now, though – nobody gives anyone shit for being a sellout really.

‘Sellout’ is the new ironic cool.

Well, indie kids love commercial music now.

Yeah, when’s this house of cards gonna fall apart?

V. A brief conversation about Gwen Stefani, the English take on Baltimore club music, and napping to Kraftwerk. Permanently.

Chris Nelson | I'm sure it's been talked about to death, but for real — how crazy was it to get a Baltimore house mix [the "Hollatronix" remix of Gwen Stefani's "Hollaback Girl"] on a major label release?

Yeah, no one really talks about it. I forgot about it. I just think how funny it is when kids in the UK were like, "Yo, what is this crap?!" That’s when I know I did a good job.

You need to slap the glowsticks out of their mouths.

F’real.

Do kids dance over there?

Yeah. Way more than you think.

I listen to those UK dudes who have DJ nights, Josh Console and shit. And it’s good, but I can’t see people dancing to it.

It’s like the gypsy holy spirit comes out. I remember talking to Ralf from Kraftwerk, and he was like, "We did great parties with Can at warehouses in Berlin." I was like, "Yeah!" And he was like, "It was amazing – people were laying down" and stuff. Like, sleeping. I was like, "Oh . . ."

I could see taking a nap to some Kraftwerk.

Yeah, I’ma play "Man Machine" at my funeral.

VI. In which Diplo says something funny that you’ll probably try to repeat to your friends, only to decide, far too late, that it was funnier on the page than it is coming out of your mouth.

Chris Nelson | I hear dancehall guys charge crazy money to do guest shit?

Wes Pentz | Mostly, yeah. It depends if they got white managers or not. A lot of dudes are takin’ it serious, and are down for DJs like me.

Like Vybz [Kartel]?

Elephant Man and Vybz are like $2,000 to $30,000. Vybz has no manager. But Vegas is mad professional and Baby Cham and some other dudes on Madhouse Records are really cool. It really depends if they’re stoners focused on ghetto celebrity, or actually breakin’ into the US market. Vegas is ’bout to come out hard. He’s everywhere: reggaeton, two hot new solo riddims . . .

Yeah, folks started talkin’ about him again after the Central Park shit.

Central Park was just like a joke, man. Corny crowd. Didn’t even know "Heads High," but knew "Bucky Done Gun." It’s like, "Huh? What planet are you from? Planet Blog?"

VII. Of freight trains, international artist development, and retirement plans.

Wes Pentz | I need to start doin’ more drugs and make another record.

Chris Nelson | Was that how you made the last one?

Nah, but I'm thinkin’ about a 2 month freight train record, all on my laptop, plugged in at rest stops and meeting kids and workin’ with them on the streets.

For real?

Yeah, I’ve always wanted to do that. I used to hitch on freight trains when I was little, in Tennesse and Florida. I only hitched like three or four times, but once I hitched from Arizona all the way back to north Alabama. But I had to fly from Tennessee to Florida, ’cause it’s mad hard to hitch in the south. People are shook ones.

How old were you?

Like 17. Maybe 18.

So when you leave DJing, is the next step to really start producing shit on a major scale?

Nah. It’s to start a family.

For real?

I don’t know. I’m takin’ it slow. Like if I had to step out now, I’m thankful and feel like I’ve done crazy things with my life already. But I’m trying to just stop DJing ’cause it sucks the life out of you if you’re a truly creative person. But I’ve put in work and my name’s up there with just cutting edge DJs and stuff, and people know about me now. I DJ’d mad shit things for a year now, and it’s just now that I can get good offers. But now I got to take it serious and really put it down. I’m really into mixtapes, ’cause they’re totally street driven. Like, even if the M.I.A. mix is trendy, it’s sold hand-to-hand by people. It’s not marketed, and I make $7 off every CD. You know, it’s about having flavor, and really fucking shit up as a DJ. Blowing up new music and flippin’ old music. But I don’t want to compete with all the lil’ hustlin’ wannabe DJs. They can all do their own thing. I got to step my game up. But in the end, I really want to produce. I’ve always wanted to. But I kept DJing ’cause it seems real natural and it’s hard to fail at it. To DJ, that is. But to produce, it’s real easy to be wack. And I got my own issues and insecurities. They dumb, but I’m just not understood. But I really have a chance to produce now. I got money to invest in a proper studio, and some time to just sit at home and try it out. I’ve never had a proper chance to get in a studio.

So your production credits thus far have been with M.I.A. and Kano. You hate Americans – let's discuss this.

Nah, it’s just that with M.I.A. and Kano, they’re still real people when I met them. And they aren’t afraid to try out shit with me and didn’t have a posse to talk shit about where they should be and what beats to use. Now, M.I.A. – no herb producer is going to fuck with her. The stakes are too high. It’s like getting a beat to 50 Cent. But the stakes weren’t as high when I met her, and now I’m in with some people and crews so it’s easier for me. I got a CD that people will check for, like a beat CD. But I do shit like Spank Rock – I’m not out there trying to do beats for every big dude. I like to develop artists . . . well, not develop . . . but work with people that have no pressure to make hits. We make our music. That’s why I put out the Big Dada album – ’cause I run the shit. No one tells me this and that. It’s just my shit. But really, M.I.A. is in a special place: she don’t got TV or radio, but still has a huge following.

So when you turn an album in to Big Dada, they don't touch it?

Yeah, I mean . . . I need advice, obviously, but it’s ultimately up to me in a situation like that, ’cause there’s no precursor to what I’m doin’. It’s a market I made up out of thin air, so fuck ’em. I realized I’m just an artist, and I’m happy being a weirdo.

On the M.I.A. thing – doesn't that seem like it could get frustrating, stuck in stasis like that?

Yeah, she’s got a following, but there’s nothing out there like her. So, we got these label people scratching their heads, like "Uhm, yeah . . ." Really, people in the music industry have no idea what’s going on right now? Anywhere. From Ninja to Atlantic.

Does the blog shit confuse them? Like they don't know where her following came from?

Yeah, really, they’re so confused.

VIII. In which an awkward question is skillfully sidestepped.

The whole M.I.A. thing – people seem preoccupied with like . . . if you guys are dating, not dating, whatever, especially when you stopped DJing for her.

Yeah, I think it’s just the megafans. Like, people who don’t know who I am anymore with her. But like, at SummerStage, people were dissin’ me, thinking I was actually her DJ on stage and I sucked, and a couple people had to defend me. Like saying, "Diplo was on earlier [in the day]. See? Here’s the pictures." Shit like that.

So what's your status right now, as far as working with her? Were you just burnt out? Wanted to do your own shit?

I can’t even get into it. I’m down for her whenever she needs me. I got a little break in September – during her tour, I might tag along a little. But I think I need to work on my own shit, ’cause it’s the only solid time I got to work on new music. But I’ma DJ for her in Brazil when we’re down there, and basically I’m very much working with her all the time, helping to update the shows, whatever. We worked out before SummerStage for about three days with the tabla player and new edits. It was hard to fit that stuff in, but we did it.

You’ve probably got a thicker skin now, but did it ever bother you when people would give you shit for exposing certain crowds to, like, baile funk, crunk, etc.?

Nah, never. Why would someone be mad at me for that? Like, music is for people. Who’s to say what’s too cool for people? That’s real gay. That’s what I stay away from. I’d rather get paid $5 to DJ a birthday party for some lil’ kid than play at a posh party, any day.

Really?

I meant $50. I wouldn’t DJ for $5.